tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3197288910841814432.post2743973659259884174..comments2023-08-26T05:38:38.632-07:00Comments on Save The Poor Brown Children Solidarity Blog: Linkage And The "Good Ole Girl’s Network.” Racist, bias against Male, POC Feminist within the Feminist Blogosphere - Follow Up to Yesterday's PostUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3197288910841814432.post-81653417695030090882009-02-26T20:27:00.000-08:002009-02-26T20:27:00.000-08:00Dear Suzie,No problem at all. If you felt upset a...Dear Suzie,<BR/><BR/>No problem at all. If you felt upset about what I said, I ask you to forgive me and I would forgive you for anything wrong you said though I don't think you said anything wrong.<BR/><BR/>The forgiveness movement and the feminist movement must go hand in hand in order to bring people from different backgrounds together.<BR/><BR/> :)<BR/><BR/>Love for the people,<BR/>-T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16163046663458463622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3197288910841814432.post-119006013989409692009-02-24T15:49:00.000-08:002009-02-24T15:49:00.000-08:00I've long known that Stanton and Anthony were ...I've long known that Stanton and Anthony were flawed, as are we all. Much as I admire Douglass, I also am disheartened that he did not always walk his talk, in regard to women’s rights. But I’ve yet to find the perfect hero. <BR/><BR/>Years earlier, Stanton and Anthony had felt betrayed by Douglass over strategy. <BR/><BR/>I appreciate your supplying the link in regard to Stanton, Anthony and Douglass. I didn't know that, and I always like to learn new things. I tried to convey that I wasn’t ignorant of these people, and I’ve done a fair amount of research. I wasn’t asking for an academic citation on theory; I just wanted to know where you got a particular piece of history, especially since you had links to other statements. <BR/><BR/>I also asked for a citation because, as you know, people say all sorts of things on the blogosphere and it can be maddening trying to figure out what's true or not. If anyone wants me to accept what they write on faith, I’m less likely to visit that particular blog because I come to the Internet for information.<BR/><BR/>I do know that some POC don’t like whites to ask for references. Some women also feel that way about men. On the blog where I guest post, men ask for links, evidence, references all the time, and women get annoyed. I’m disabled and I spend a lot of time educating people who are not. I try to balance my exasperation with my desire to communicate.<BR/><BR/>Do you think that men should accept whatever women write on faith, without asking for further information? <BR/><BR/>I'm newer to the blogging world than many people. I don't regularly read the big feminist blogs, but when I have seen them, they do seem to be written in standard American English, as do some popular WOC blogs, such as Racialicious. <BR/><BR/>To me, one of the most important things that a blogger can do is communicate. I think grammatical and spelling errors get in the way. Grammar and spelling exist to further communication. You mention Ebonics, but that has its own form and function – its own grammar. Here’s an interesting article on the subject:<BR/>http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~patrickp/aavesem/EbonicsQ&A.html<BR/><BR/>You may know that a number of feminists have complained that most languages are male-centered and sexist. Many of us are trapped in language that doesn’t suit us, and it’s a struggle to communicate with others, without subverting our own identities.Suziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08449362614409523907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3197288910841814432.post-9133593832884440812009-02-23T21:10:00.000-08:002009-02-23T21:10:00.000-08:00Dear Ico,Your comment is appreciated and especiall...Dear Ico,<BR/><BR/>Your comment is appreciated and especially your desire to take action. Here is my first question:<BR/><BR/>Do you have any interest in cofounding a blog with me that would only be used for gathering people's responses to creating a feminist code of conduct, as RavenMn mentioned? We'd all decide on the layout, content, everything as a collective.<BR/><BR/>Next...<BR/><BR/>I have compassion for the pain that BFP and other POC and WOC have felt. I too, was almost driven off the Internet by a White Progressive feminist group blog and her owner and dozens and dozens of profane attacks and racial slurs and that is how this blog was founded. I keep a link to the post at the top under 'The History.' It is also here: http://savethepoorbrownchildren.blogspot.com/2009/02/1st-blog-post-about-this-blogand.html<BR/><BR/>But even more importantly, I feel like I am almost driven off the Internet by biased Progressive feminists and their dozens and dozens and dozens of new methods for censoring, LGBTQI and male people of color. It is well repeated fact throughout history that the oppressed often become the oppressors.<BR/><BR/>Just last night I posted a blog post specifically stating that I might give up this blog because of the overwhelming amount of bias I see and am learning about directed at people of color by other women (and that includes WOC). Read it here: http://savethepoorbrownchildren.blogspot.com/2009/02/burning-my-bridges-and-feeling-reborn.html<BR/><BR/>If we had this conversation three days ago, I wouldn't be naming names. I would discreetly and kindly speak in abstracts as civilized people are supposed to so that no one thinks that someone is being demonized or singled out. Well, after my above blog post about feeling reborn as a result of reading all the barely comprehensible hatred and bias that Black Amazon had to suffer through, I no longer am going to speak in abstract terms because there is so much regular, standard and excused bias going around that no one can even understand what you're talking about if you don't name names. :)<BR/><BR/>All I can do is try to speak from a place of love and solidarity.<BR/><BR/>It is expected and easier to take bias when right-wing people are biased but it hits you (hits me) off guard when you are attacked by the feminists and the POC with bias.<BR/><BR/>And even after all the pain I feel... that still would not justify me discriminating on who could comment on my blog on the basis of not only their 'perceived gender' but also their 'perceived' race...especially if I used a public discussion on colonialism and bias as my springboard blog to give that biased invitation to my private blog.<BR/><BR/>I read the links you gave. Thanks for the time. You have a great blog too. Excellent links. I am familiar with the issue from finding out about that group blog owner on wikipedia. Still, your comment about the bias does not justify the bias at all, especially since you did not mention the bias directed towards Non-males (LGBTQI) who were left out of such a 'WOC only permitted to speak' call.<BR/><BR/>I stand in solidarity with the LGBTQI who are increasingly being censored by Feminist People of Color. As Black people and people of color we particularly have a time honored disgraceful history of institutionalized, and religiously justified rationalization of transphobia. Renee has a large debate on a thread with at least 350 comments regarding feminists who try to justify their transphobia here: http://www.womanist-musings.com/2009/02/radical-feminism.html<BR/><BR/>And those are women who call themselves 'radical feminists.' I once thought I was a radical feminist because of my post-capitalism views and much more but due to the large amount of the self-titled 'radical feminists' who openly, and hatefully practice transphobia... and have all kinds of academic rationalizations for doing so... I can't ever see myself using the label of 'radical feminism.' I live in area where there are a large number of LGBTQI and they are my friends and treat me nicer than many feminists and the idea that I might get confused with one of the hateful pack is just too much.<BR/><BR/>So that is not a form of bias I can remain silent about. Furthermore, it was not just BFP, there are numerous people doing it. That is the way bias is as a standard..when it becomes acceptable, lots of people start doing it...hence slavery, Jim Crow, Etc..,<BR/><BR/>Please answer the questions that I posed in the article:<BR/><BR/>Can you imagine if you walked into a public forum in which people were having a conversation on colonialism in your town...and then someone in the audience stood up and said:<BR/><BR/>"I want to continue this conversation about digital colonialism in the feminist blogophere... but not here... as a matter of fact lets take it to my private space...where I control everything... but then I only want to invite certain people.... of certain races.... of certain genders... to be able to talk and leave comments.... and engage in that conversation....oh, and by the way, I only want those certain genders to be defined through narrow minded first and second wave feminism definitions of gender that are defined within our heterosexist, patriarchal, capitalist oppressive system. "<BR/><BR/>Would that be acceptable?<BR/><BR/>It doesn't look so pretty when you stop to detail all the people being excluded. It only seems justifiable when you phrase it as: 'WOC only.'<BR/><BR/>And here is another question...when conversations that only permit WOC begin to produce results that exclude Black LGBTQI and Male feminists of color from the conversations... is that a “Good Ole Girls Network” or is the fact that they have been oppressed justify their oppression (perhaps accidentally) to others?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Thanks for your thoughts.<BR/><BR/>Love for the people,<BR/>-T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16163046663458463622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3197288910841814432.post-78765119541543987102009-02-23T19:02:00.000-08:002009-02-23T19:02:00.000-08:00Dear Suzie,Thanks for your comment. This link bel...Dear Suzie,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comment. This link below will take you to three links on Black Amazon's website. I love the way she talks. Can you show me a White woman blogger featured on a Feminist group blog that speaks that way?<BR/>< http://savethepoorbrownchildren.blogspot.com/2009/02/burning-my-bridges-and-feeling-reborn.html ><BR/><BR/>I have had my writing featured in many newspapers, magazines and feminist websites. And I have noticed that when I spend an absurd amount of time spellchecking everything and making it perfect in terms of grammar, it is much more likely to get published. This is not only racist, but it is classist in the worst way of having colonized language forced upon us. Even worse, the editors will often reword it so it is even more colonized than when it started. The Ebonics movement was formed in large part due to such bias.<BR/><BR/>Black Amazon mentioned in one of the three links how many feminist websites don't link to her.<BR/><BR/>You asked for a reference in regards to Douglass. I am happy to provide a reference this time around because I recall the locations of one of the many places where it has been stated, however, I would like to take the time to share with you a quote from Renee on why so many POC don't appreciate being asked for references:<BR/><BR/>"As a WOC I find that I must struggle to find a space within feminism. What I have to say is regularly challenged or met with great hostility. Obviously I am not expert on all subjects however, the continual demand that I supply academic papers to legitimate my work has become tiresome. Why must my work be validated by another, while white feminist bloggers are not held to the same standard? My work is often based in theory however, blogging is not an academic format and it is for this reason that I believe that the repeated request that I provide citations for my work is a sign of elitists trying to control a format that should be equally open to all. Just as academia discounts the voices of women of colour; the blogosphere renders our positions illegitimate and without value."<BR/><BR/>That was here: http://www.womanist-musings.com/2009/02/i-am-womanist-because.html<BR/><BR/>So I think it is important when you visit the blog of a POC, that you try to show some faith in what they are saying or in this instance, in what I am saying, without requests for citations.<BR/><BR/>That being said, here is your reference: <BR/><BR/>"...more radical positions included acceptance of interracial marriage. Despite her opposition to giving African-American men the right to vote without enfranchising all women and the derogatory language she had resorted to in expressing this opposition, Stanton had no objection to interracial marriage and wrote a congratulatory letter to Frederick Douglass upon his marriage to Helen Pitts, a white woman, in 1884.[66] Anthony, fearing public condemnation of the National Woman Suffrage Association (NWSA) and wanting to keep the demand for female suffrage foremost, pleaded with Stanton not to make her letter to Douglass or support for his marriage publicly known.[67]"<BR/><BR/>footnotes to references found here<BR/>Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Cady_Stanton<BR/><BR/>You said you disagree with my characterization of Susan B. Anthony as being part of a “Good Ole Girls Network.”<BR/><BR/>We'll simply have to agree to disagree. Finding that your role models are part of institutionalized racism and feminist betrayal even to the most dedicated, world famous Black, Male feminist can be very hard... even with all the proof in the world.<BR/><BR/>You mentioned 'He lived only 9 years more [after his marriage to helen], before dying at the age of 77. Personally, I believe it was the stress from the notion of having so many White and Black feminist and other people turn on him who he thought were his friends in such a racist action..people who he supported for so long emotionally, financially and faithfully.<BR/><BR/>I know that feeling well.<BR/><BR/>Their is a definite lack of Feminist Linking in the current "Good Ole Girl’s Network.”<BR/><BR/>Though, I understand it is because there is no standard code of conduct, so I hope to start working on one soon. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for your thoughts.<BR/><BR/>Love for the people,<BR/>-T<BR/><BR/>p.s.<BR/><BR/>Today Sarah posted the following comment to the Colonialism article and it is worth noting in terms of the "Good Ole Girl’s Network.”<BR/><BR/>------------------------------------------<BR/><BR/> "On February 23, 2009 at 7:15 am sarah Said:<BR/><BR/>Interesting article.<BR/><BR/>Also interesting to note that the first blog on the blogroll here, the Alas blog, was sold to pornography marketers for the equivalent of a years’ wages for the white male blog owner. He also receives annual sums from the pornography marketers to keep his blog sited at that domain and thus up the ranking for the links to racist-sexist websites like Bang Bros. I don’t think any female blogger has been able to make an equivalent capital sum from her blog. The owner also made full use of guest bloggers to provide content for his blog and was happy to host anti-feminists to drive up hit counts in wars between feminists and MRAs.<BR/><BR/>It certainly bears out your argument that the people who are benefiting the most from feminist blogging in our whitemale supremacy are those at the top i.e. white men, with white women following closely in second place.".https://www.blogger.com/profile/16163046663458463622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3197288910841814432.post-9638976727364731312009-02-23T13:33:00.000-08:002009-02-23T13:33:00.000-08:00I came over from Octogalore's site.First of all, n...I came over from Octogalore's site.<BR/><BR/>First of all, not all white feminists speak grammatically and academically. Surely you understand that not all white women are educated and middle class, while some black feminist men are. There’s a black feminist man teaching in the women’s studies dept that gave me my master’s, and I’m sure he can be just as academic as the women. <BR/><BR/>Can you give me a citation about Susan B. Anthony rejecting Frederick Douglass for marrying Helen Pitts? I've never heard that before. I've visited Douglass' home in the D.C. area, which the National Park Service maintains. Anthony used a guest room there when she traveled in the area because it wasn't proper for a single woman to stay in a hotel. The preserved home includes at least one portrait of her. At his funeral, Stanton gave a eulogy for Douglass that had been written by Elizabeth Cady Stanton. <BR/><BR/>Douglass' second marriage to Helen Pitts angered both her family and his. Another aspect of the controversy was that he was 20 years older. He lived only 9 years more, before dying at the age of 77. <BR/>http://www.history.rochester.edu/class/douglass/part5.html<BR/><BR/>I disagree with your characterization of Susan B. Anthony as being part of a “Good Ole Girls Network.” The majority of white feminists sided with Douglass and others who supported the 15th Amendment, saying it was more important to give rights to black men than white women. (Presumable, black men were supposed to look after black women.) Stanton and Anthony broke with Douglass over this, but were later reconciled.Suziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08449362614409523907noreply@blogger.com